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Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
91
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Posted - 2014.09.10 02:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Pro TIps wrote:Nice review.
I don't agree that frig-only holes are going to be great for defending against a siege. If you don't have such a WH in your system when the siege is happening, it's no use to you. If you do, you will still lose to the larger blob unless your POS comes out of reinforcement in an advantageous timezone. The whole point of calling your spacefriends and getting them into the system via frigate holes is to not be outnumbered horribly.
You still need the frig hole in your system at some point in the siege and it needs to open to somewhere with a k-space static. Frig holes are w-space only. You need the connecting wormhole system to be inactive and connecting to k-space with reasonable number of jumps to your buddies. Its a long shot. Almost certainly the planets will not align in this manner for you to save your tower(s).
TL;DR. Frig holes. Nice idea on paper. But all they really do is further screw up the balance between PvP and PvE to replace PvP losses.
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Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
91
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Posted - 2014.09.10 03:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aquila Sagitta wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:
*An average C4 site payout is (was?) 110 million ISK and requires 2 people. An average C3 site payout is 80 million ISK and requires one person.
Umm.. back when I dualboxed c3 sites with Tengu/Mach a couple years ago I was making 40-50mil on average. Sleeper salvage has gone down since then. I don't disagree on c3's being better cause I could finish the site in like 8 mins or something, just don't want you to be misleading. Also, c4 site requires 2 people? We're running c5 sites with solo marauders I don't see how a c4 would require 2 people...
Yeah C2's are more like 25 - 30 mil for the average site.
Dunno where the OP spends his time. Seems he read the patch notes but doesn't live in w-space. Everybody has to spam their particular misinformed opinion I guess.  |
Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
91
|
Posted - 2014.09.10 04:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nox52 wrote:Yeah gonna call bullshit on the isk numbers on the c2 and c3. The rest of the post is ok-ish but the numbers are too high. C3 sites are about 30 mil in blue loot and whatever the mnr fairy drops which is not much. One example is 10 sites for about 350 mil.
The issue is that overall the changes are underwhelming. Where are the pos and roles changes. where are the content updates like new sites and sleepers. Where are the t3 rebalances. Where is the salvage rebalance so that the other junk besides mnr are usefull other than take up space.
Yeah the patch didn't add any content or make any significant improvements to quality of life for wormholes... unless you only roam them for PvP and don't actually live in one. If you're a day tripper like that, Hyperion was a good patch for you. The rest of us are still waiting on all the things you listed.
Overall I would say there's less incentive to do anything in wormholes now except PI, mucking around inside the POS shield, and k-space style PvP roams (+ probers). That is, assuming you can find targets. The rest of w-space life is still happening but the changes to the mechanics are actively discouraging it. |
Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
91
|
Posted - 2014.09.10 05:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ruffio Sepico wrote:
Most valued combat anomaly in a c3 is the Outpost Frontier Stronghold, 32.5m in blues. Of the data/relic sites its the Unsecured Frontier Database that clocks in at 72.5m in blues. The other salvage is very random what you end up with.
For the time/effort to do these sites solo (that is solo with no alts multi boxing). You probably better of do level 4s in empire.
Especially considering you won't lose your ship/pod and have to haul in a whole new set doing empire L4s unless you're rolling with a stupid amount of bling. And lol, I remember ppl saying C1-C2 was worse than L4s like a year ago. Now C3's even. But tbh I don't doubt there has been enough power creep and tactics/fitting optimization in that time that you can now blitz those L4s competitively with C3 all-in rates.
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Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
91
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Posted - 2014.09.10 11:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
O'nira wrote:Maduin Shi wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:Pro TIps wrote:Nice review.
I don't agree that frig-only holes are going to be great for defending against a siege. If you don't have such a WH in your system when the siege is happening, it's no use to you. If you do, you will still lose to the larger blob unless your POS comes out of reinforcement in an advantageous timezone. The whole point of calling your spacefriends and getting them into the system via frigate holes is to not be outnumbered horribly. You still need the frig hole in your system at some point in the siege and it needs to open to somewhere with a k-space static. Frig holes are w-space only. You need the connecting wormhole system to be inactive and connecting to k-space with reasonable number of jumps to your buddies. Its a long shot. Almost certainly the planets will not align in this manner for you to save your tower(s). Frig holes were a nice idea on paper. Dreams of fiery death in clashing swarms of tiny ships. But the idea had no "reality balancing" or integration into the whole wormhole ecosystem. Hence all they really do now is further screw up the balance between PvP and PvE to replace PvP losses along with all the extra "swiss cheese" random holes. Frig holes are not w-space only and even if they were you would just need a k-space exit anywhere in that chain and then your army of interceptors can go. while i think frig holes are a pile of **** they do make it easier to defend a wh, as long as you are lucky enough to get a frig hole while getting sieged anyways
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4883282#post4883282
This is not a personal attack but please do your due diligence before posting.
I'm not saying it'll never happen that a frig hole won't defeat a siege, but its certainly a fortuitous outcome and cannot be relied upon. You need the frig hole (obviously), and your batphoned buds would all need to be able to fly interceptors (else you would need all the other conditions in place that I wrote in my earlier post and the k-space exit would probably have to be of the high/low variety). You would also need to have a lot of useful PvP ships and mods stashed in your SMA that just happen to match well with the skills of your friends and just happen to counter or outnumber what the sieging fleet has on field. Theorycrafting this is easy, but reality is generally a lot less ideal. |
Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2014.09.10 19:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Maduin Shi wrote: Frig holes are w-space only. You need the connecting wormhole system to be inactive and connecting to k-space with reasonable number of jumps to your buddies. This is incorrect, there are frig holes from w-space to k-space, just took some last night.
My bad, they can lead directly to nullsec but not directly to higher security space. I....don't think that changes my overall opinion on these things with respect to sieges though. I haven't seen hardly any frig holes out of my system or in any statics since they reduced their spawn probability a week or two ago. Much less one leading out to null. But I'm lower class so *shrug*
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Maduin Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
96
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Posted - 2014.09.10 20:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Durzel wrote:
So yeah - there's no upside. You have the same sites with the same rewards, only you probably can't run them half the time anymore because your wormhole - which have an earning potential considerably less than Incursions do by orders of magnitude - is swiss cheese.
As the member of a C5 resident corp I don't have a problem with the spirit of the mass distance change, at least for C5+ where the serious money is made, but the blunt and narrow minded way it was applied - I do. Worst of all it is done in the very same expansion that Incursions were buffed in. You'd think CCP really don't want people to bother living in W-space, frankly, which is a shame because it's so cool.
Ugh... yeah, the horrible swiss cheese. a.k.a. picking up nickels on the freeway. I think that everyday I login and see 10+ sigs on scanner. Which is like, 5 days out of 7 now. We're running sites on those 1-2 days where its more reasonable but its still pants-on-head stupid to do this to lower class holes with sites that were already borderline not worth running.
And you know Fozzie's opener to the Hyperion devblog was so ironic and your comment reminded me of what he wrote how "its awesome you guys decided to live in w-space, we support that" and then proceed to implement changes that **** up the entire w-space ecosystem and make it harder for the full spectrum of player activities to happen....and by extension make living in w-space harder to justify. Just like a government program you get the exact opposite of the intended outcome. Agghhh. I need a beer. |
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